{"id":21520,"date":"2011-06-06T12:18:30","date_gmt":"2011-06-06T16:18:30","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/countingpips.com\/fx\/?p=21520"},"modified":"2011-06-06T12:18:30","modified_gmt":"2011-06-06T16:18:30","slug":"this-man-thinks-the-stock-market-could-fall-70","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/2011\/06\/06\/this-man-thinks-the-stock-market-could-fall-70\/","title":{"rendered":"This Man Thinks the Stock Market Could Fall 70%"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Meet Albert Edwards, an investment strategist for Societe Generale (or &#8220;SocGen&#8221; for short).<\/p>\n<p>Though SocGen is a French bank, Mr. Edwards is based in Britain. It  is there he has developed a reputation as &#8220;the City of London&#8217;s  best-known permabear&#8221; (via <em>The New York Times<\/em>).<\/p>\n<p>Also via the <em>NYT<\/em>, Mr. Edwards has called for &#8220;a <a title=\"Conflict in the Financial Stock Market... Protect Yourself Now!\" href=\"http:\/\/www.taipanpublishinggroup.com\/tpg\/smart-investing-daily\/smart-investing-051211.html\" target=\"_self\">stock market<\/a> collapse of at least 60 percent, followed by years of inflation of 20  to 30 percent as the persistent printing of money by central banks  desperate to improve the situation sends prices soaring.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Lately, though, the 60% target has been modified. Now Mr. Edwards, a  friendly fellow known for his &#8220;sandals and chuckling demeanor,&#8221; is  calling for an even larger drop.<\/p>\n<p>The new downside target? A toe-curling 400 on the S&amp;P, or roughly a 70% fall from recent levels.<\/p>\n<p>Wild predictions aren&#8217;t meaningful in themselves, of course. With all  the analysts out there hunting for press recognition, it isn&#8217;t hard to  cherry-pick the extremes. Sometimes a big target is thrown out, bullish  or bearish, simply for the sake of headlines. (Perhaps the most infamous  call in history was &#8220;Dow 36,000,&#8221; in a book of the same name.)<\/p>\n<p>The Albert Edwards case is intriguing, though, because of the logic  behind his argument. The price target is not so important as getting the  drivers right. If, for example, the S&amp;P fell a mere 40% for the  same reasons it was expected to fall 70%, would anyone quibble?<\/p>\n<p>Mr. Edwards&#8217; thesis could perhaps be summarized as &#8220;first deflation,  then inflation.&#8221; That turn of events would be consistent with many  elements pointed out in these pages.<\/p>\n<p>For example, we have talked at length about how government &#8220;stimulus&#8221;  does not really work, and in many instances makes the problem worse. If  the economy stumbles again, we could find that all the previous  money-printing has only resulted in an even bigger deflationary hangover  than before (the side effect of trying to drink ourselves sober).<\/p>\n<p>For another example, we have talked about the loud and clear warning  message of the bond market. U.S. Treasuries have been going UP, not  down, even as Washington fights over the debt ceiling. This is a  counterintuitive turn of events for those who think Uncle Sam is a  deadbeat. Investors have been buying bonds, not selling them, which in  turn has driven interest rates lower.<\/p>\n<p>Albert Edwards has been expecting this phenomenon of lower bond  yields (and higher bond prices), because falling interest rates (bond  yields) are a hallmark of deflation taking hold. As Edwards writes to  clients:<\/p>\n<p><em>Clearly the S&amp;P falling to 400  destroys household balance sheets and consumption anew. And EM liquidity  tightening could cause hard landings. (In China, for example, a recent  calculation showed FX intervention accounted for around one-half of the  country&#8217;s runaway money supply which has helped propel the boom.) My own  view would be that despite the cessation of the EMs need to buy US  Treasury debt as they curtail liquidity, weak economic fundamentals will  drive US Treasury yields still lower in the near term. The printing  presses being turned off will hit risk assets hard and that should boost  Treasuries. So in my world, 400 on the S&amp;P goes hand-in-hand with  lower, not higher US bond yields. Ultimately I would concur that there  is also going to be &#8220;The Great Reset&#8221; on US yields as well, but that  will come after a frenzied orgy of balance sheet debauchment (both Fed  and Federal) which will make events over the last three years look like  an afternoon tea party with the Vestal Virgins.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>In plainer terms, Edwards thinks that bond yields, already just below 3% on the 10-year note, could fall all the way down to 2%.<\/p>\n<p>A move from 3% to 2% does not sound like a whole lot. But in the mammoth government <a title=\"Rising Bonds Signal Contrarian Deflation \" href=\"http:\/\/www.taipanpublishinggroup.com\/tpg\/taipan-daily\/taipan-daily-052511.html\" target=\"_self\">bond market<\/a>,  that would be gigantic . Think of it like this: Going from &#8220;3.0&#8221; to  &#8220;2.0&#8221; on the 10-year would mean cutting interest rates by a full third  (thirty-three percent) from already depressed levels.<\/p>\n<p>If that happened, we would be mimicking the experience of Japan. That  is another unsettling thing: Via Japan, we can say that the <a title=\"Challenging Albert Edwards: Have Profits Peaked?\" href=\"http:\/\/citywire.co.uk\/wealth-manager\/challenging-albert-edwards-have-profits-peaked\/a491796\" target=\"_blank\">Albert Edwards<\/a> scenario is not unprecedented. In Japan, they saw a similar decline in  interest rates from already depressed levels&#8230; and the Japanese Nikkei  index lost more than 75% (three-quarters) of its value in result.<\/p>\n<p>Ultimately, though, Edwards thinks out-of-control inflation still  comes in the end. That is because the long-term costs of a deflationary  downward spiral are too painful for any democracy to bear. Eventually  the hurt gets so bad that furious voters become ready to sign on to ANY  solution&#8230; anything to stop the torturous contraction.<\/p>\n<p>It is at that point, when deflation pressures have become so strong  that the populace is up in arms, that you get the risk of a &#8220;Weimar  Germany&#8221; type scenario. Under these conditions, the economy gets worse  and worse until a new crop of leaders strides forth with radical new  ideas. (These ideas will not actually be &#8220;new,&#8221; of course, they will  just feel new at the time.)<\/p>\n<p>These &#8220;new&#8221; ideas will be seen as risky, but worth trying against a  desperate backdrop as all other options are seen as failures. And that  is when you get the truly &#8220;nuclear&#8221; all-in policy responses that turn  the currency into confetti and send bonds crashing through the floor.<\/p>\n<p>Want to know the simplest way to keep tabs on the Edwards &#8220;first  deflation, then inflation&#8221; prediction? Keep an eye on bond yields.<\/p>\n<p>Just this past week, the yield on the 10-Year U.S. Treasury fell  below 3.0% for the first time this year. If that yield keeps falling  (alongside falling stock prices), then deflationary slowdown fears are  tightening their grip&#8230; and the Albert Edwards prediction may be coming  true.<\/p>\n<p><em>Written by Justice Litle for Taipan Publishing Group. Additional valuable content can be syndicated via our <a title=\"Go To: Subscribe to Taipan's News Feed\" href=\"http:\/\/feeds.feedburner.com\/taipan-news\" target=\"_blank\">News RSS feed<\/a>. Republish without charge. Required: Author attribution, links back to original content or <a title=\"Go To Taipan Publishing Group's Homepage\" href=\"http:\/\/www.taipanpublishinggroup.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">www.taipanpublishinggroup.com<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Meet Albert Edwards, an investment strategist for Societe Generale (or &#8220;SocGen&#8221; for short). Though SocGen is a French bank, Mr. Edwards is based in Britain. It is there he has developed a reputation as &#8220;the City of London&#8217;s best-known permabear&#8221; (via The New York Times). Also via the NYT, Mr. Edwards has called for &#8220;a &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/2011\/06\/06\/this-man-thinks-the-stock-market-could-fall-70\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;This Man Thinks the Stock Market Could Fall 70%&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-21520","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/21520","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=21520"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/21520\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=21520"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=21520"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.investmacro.com\/fx\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=21520"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}